Chapter 11
Materials (VI)
“Life Among The Lorrums Update Thread: Chs. 64-6” (Thread From Cafe Chesscourt, Page 1 of 7)
| jenni_fur | Posted: Feb 7, 2004 3:12 PM |
| Moderator Joined: May 17, 2000 Location: the warrens Posts: 2653 |
update! link is here. sorry for the long wait -- i figured these three chapters should be posted in one big block, for reasons that will probably become clear when you read. this one is a bit of a doozy plot-wise, so be prepared ;) you guys know the drill: thread is a spoiler zone, those wanting spoiler-free discussion (including advice for getting into the story etc) can go to the spoiler-free thread. questions welcome. play nice. _________________ Life Among The Lorrums, a mildly AU story about our favorite not-rabbits (200k and counting!) ff.net profile "I've never had any ambitions except to be kind -- but it seems life has contrived others for me." ~Tom (Nautical Dusk) "Life without mechanical assistance? Just the idea chills me to the marrow!" ~Cleft-Ear (The Mainspring) |
| Avery Lodestone | Posted: Feb 7, 2004 4:05 PM |
| Cherub Joined: June 15, 2002 Location: Zanarkand Posts: 1012 |
Just finished 64 and . . . GOD DAMMIT SPEAR-TAIL. >_> That is all. _________________ Maintainer of the Anti-Pokémon Haiku Archive (contributions welcome) |
| Sexologian | Posted: Feb 7, 2004 4:57 PM |
| Tilemaker Joined: Apr 3, 2000 Location: Posts: 1723 |
Damn. Daaaaaaamn~ Jenny I've said this before but I can hyperfocus on your writing like nothing else. (Would be nice if I could do the same for schoolwork, but I'll take what I can get ^^.) Wonderful pacing as always, masterfully engrossing, nicely done. Now as for the story…I'm sorry. I'm not sure if I'm okay with this. I've been absolutely ~in love~ with the way you've characterized Cleft-Ear as I've said many many times and his coup d'etat really seemed like it was taking the story new places. And now it's all over, just like that? Because Spear-Tail was more important than his ideals? More important than the Corpuscule Device? I don't want to call bullshit but I am…not happy. ;_: But Jenny you are a ~fantastic~ writer and I trust that you are toying with my heart this way for a very important reason ^_^ As always, cannot wait for the next update~ _________________ ~*~*~ "He showed her a most beautiful crystal globe, made in the shape of a castle, and containing seven mansions, in the seventh and innermost of which was the King of Glory, in the greatest splendour, illumining and beautifying them all. The nearer one got to the centre, the stronger was the light; outside the palace limits everything was foul, dark and infested with toads, vipers and other venomous creatures." ~*~*~ |
| jenni_fur | Posted: Feb 7, 2004 5:28 PM |
| Moderator Joined: May 17, 2000 Location: the warrens Posts: 2653 |
thanks as always for the writing praise, sexologian! as for your other comments -- i know this is pretty much a non-answer, but mostly i just hope you'll keep reading and that the parts that are frustrating now will, as you said, eventually feel like they are there for a good reason. (i WAS expecting exactly this kind of response to this update, tbh. not to say too much but part of what i've been doing this whole time is trying to show how HARD it is to change lorrum society -- how much the society builds in ways of handling potential challenges. i won't say what'll happen to cleft-ear's ideals, but this is exactly the sort of thing they HAVE to be able to deal with, if they're going to get anywhere.) _________________ Life Among The Lorrums, a mildly AU story about our favorite not-rabbits (200k and counting!) ff.net profile "I've never had any ambitions except to be kind -- but it seems life has contrived others for me." ~Tom (Nautical Dusk) "Life without mechanical assistance? Just the idea chills me to the marrow!" ~Cleft-Ear (The Mainspring) |
| Errant KnightsMove | Posted: Feb 7, 2004 6:37 PM |
| Moderator Joined: Feb 11, 2000 Location: The Inside Of My Head, U.S. Posts: 3408 |
A lot to chew on here. Thanks, Jenny, for a very thought-provoking and complex set of chapters, even by your high standards. A few thoughts: Cleft-Ear's willingness to join Spear-Tail's bond-cell struck me as very culturally authentic, and, just as you said, a way of illustrating the barriers to change in Lorrum society. You've always been highly consistent about depicting the intense shame that the Lorrums feel upon rejecting a bond request from a superior. As I've remarked before in earlier update threads, Cleft-Ear seems to see his coup as simply a return to the way Lorrum society should be, rather than a true revolution. So it makes sense that he would not have weeded out aspects of Lorrum culture like the appeal of bond requests. Why should he? Good characterization, good sociology. On the other hand, I did find this a bit jarring: In an instant, with the suddenness of a pipe bursting, Cleft-Ear's orderly little world collapsed upon him, and he was left quivering under the piled-up remains.
As I said, this seems like an authentic depiction of the Lorrum mindset. But how is this any different from the situation faced by Pullulus? Pullulus also had to fight the temptation of bonding, in order to keep his independence from the Regnant Cell and drum up support for the Grain Reforms. And wouldn't a bond request from the Regnant Cell be more appealing than a bond request from a singleton alpha?Because what, after all, was the Corpuscule Device good for, in a warren where the Spirit was no longer obeyed? He had convinced himself that Shimmering and Morning-Dew had abandoned the Spirit of the Gears and that it was up to him to restore it, because no one else would. That he, a male Gamma, should depose the Regnant Cell not in his name -- he was nobody -- but in the name of better, truer Regnant Cells to come. Stranger things had happened. (Think of Pullulus, think of Pullulus . . . ) But above all, Cleft-Ear valued the Spirit of the Gears, and the Spirit rose up within him and told him that it was right for a gamma like him and a benevolent alpha to bond. That this was how harmony was made, and pleasant dawns when one could awake to the singing of the machines and know that all was well in the warren. Refuse this, and there would be no more Corpuscule Devices, no more Regnant Cells, no more of anything bright and harmonious. Gear-tooth would fail to engage gear-tooth and the great inanity, the great disappointment of unharmony would return . . . Cleft-Ear shuddered to think of it, and as he shuddered he felt Spear-Tail's fur brush against his, warm mechanism locking with warm mechanism, and he knew what he was going to do, what he never could have refused doing. Of course I can accept this as Cleft-Ear's own failing. There's no reason he has to be as strong as Pullulus, who was an exceptional hero. It's just not clear to me why this didn't even seem to occur to him, even though he's specifically thinking about Pullulus. Now, for something completely different. When I read this description of Shimmering's new project: Her idea had been a simple one. It was a straightforward application of the Thorn Channelling principle that had been used for communication within the warren ever since the human incursion. By exploiting the principle of mirrored force -- formerly considered a mere nuisance -- she sought to overcome the ordinary laws of momentum and produce a peculiar engine, like none any engineer had made before. Of course, Lorrums had hit upon the idea the moment the warren became aware of Thorn Channelling, but the mechanical inefficiencies involved had appeared to doom any practical application. Shimmering, however, thought she had found a loophole.
I was reminded immediately of TNC and Seeking Continuity, specifically the Reversal Hypothesis. Obviously it's a pretty loose connection, but I know you've been following the Seeking Continuity threads, and I just figured I'd ask if this was a deliberate reference?_________________ Cafe Chesscourt Official Guy With Too Much Time On His Hands "The four stages of reading an Err post: 1. Wonder if he's joking. 2. Start thinking about his argument. 3. Keep trying to find holes in his argument until the next thing you know, it's 6 AM the next morning, and you still can't prove him wrong. 4. Conclude that the Courtverse is even weirder than you had previously thought." -GlassWave Major Theory Threads: Plainsverse!Charles | Infinite Skycrashes | Lorrums As Human Ancestor | Continuity Glitches And Their Resolutions | Multi-Manor Hypothesis | Tracing The Upstairs White Bishop To ATT (And Beyond) | Seeking Continuity in TNC (DGITC Warning!) |
| metamarsh | Posted: Feb 7, 2004 6:58 PM |
| Cherub Joined: Jun 2, 2000 Location: marshland Posts: 965 |
Errant KnightsMove wrote:
I was reminded immediately of TNC and Seeking Continuity, specifically the Reversal Hypothesis. Obviously it's a pretty loose connection, but I know you've been following the Seeking Continuity threads, and I just figured I'd ask if this was a deliberate reference?
Lol Err. Considering that the whole force mirror thing is spelled out in CC, I kinda doubt this is a reference to your super special sparkly "Reversal Hypothesis."Nice chapters Jenny. Hate to see Cleft-Ear get pussywhipped again but that's the way the Lorrums are I guess. Hope the coup works out in the end _________________ think for yourself, schmuck |
| jenni_fur | Posted: Feb 7, 2004 8:26 PM |
| Moderator Joined: May 17, 2000 Location: the warrens Posts: 2653 |
marsh, please don't be a dick. :P i know you're frustrated with err right now but PLEASE keep that in seeking continuity and don't bring it here. (also, if what you're getting out of this is that cleft-ear is being "pussywhipped," you are missing the point. the lorrums have a matriarchal society. going against that is difficult and risks disrupting the social order, which they consider very important. this is lorrums 101 stuff) err, thanks for the commentary! i always enjoy your detailed feedback. the deal with pullulus is that, well, as much as cleft-ear thinks of himself as following in p's footsteps, he has not REALLY thought about what that would mean. p was a serious radical to the point of basically opposing the spirit of the gears. or many would say so anyway. to cleft-ear, p is an IDEAL, but not really someone he thinks about on the level of practical reality. i think (hope? :P) this comes across in his thoughts about p in, say, ch 60. last: sorry to say, but i didn't really have seeking continuity or TNC in mind when writing any of this. i have been reading seeking continuity, but at this point my interest in TNC is pretty low and most of my salby thinking goes toward my fic. _________________ Life Among The Lorrums, a mildly AU story about our favorite not-rabbits (200k and counting!) ff.net profile "I've never had any ambitions except to be kind -- but it seems life has contrived others for me." ~Tom (Nautical Dusk) "Life without mechanical assistance? Just the idea chills me to the marrow!" ~Cleft-Ear (The Mainspring) |
| Ombudsman | Posted: Feb 8, 2004 8:04 AM |
| Lorrum Joined: Apr 19, 2003 Location: Houyhnhnm Land Posts: 660 |
Although I have tried in recent months to remain a mere passive recipient of this fiction, letting its virtues and its failings wash over me without either provoking me to action, I feel that the singular tenor of this latest sally cannot be met with mere silence by one who aspires, as I do, to rectitude in thought and forthright honesty in speech. Forgive me, dearest Jenni_Fur, for raising my voice again in protest against certain blemishes I descry upon the weft of your subcreation. I am not ignorant of your feelings as to these forays into criticism, but I fear in this case my dedication to right reason overrules my tact. Let it be observed, first, that I am as ever an admirer of your prosecraft, your integrity of vision (be it nonetheless a vision which in some respects repels me), and your magisterial command of the full palette of human affinities, here somber, here whimsical, here bestirred with passion, everywhere true to life as it is lived. In reproduction of verities, then, your achivement is unimpeachable. But reproduction of verities is not the artist's sole task, for we must ask whether the verities of character therein reproduced are ennobling or degenerating, whether they lead the reader closer towards the higher and better things of his nature or merely lend him a gentle push in that slouch towards Bethlehem to which, helped or not, we all by nature incline. In this regard it is my task here, as it has been on other occasions, to take issue with your dramatis personae and the colorations you bestow upon their motley intercourses. For in this instance, you have first presented your audience with an admirable figure -- deviser of a Device which I take it stands in for the whole of human enterprise -- and twice debased him, first by setting him spuriously at odds with his community (I have remarked upon this at length in prior threads), and now by presenting him with a choice between the love of a woman and the pursuit of his ambition. Should we accept this as a true dilemma, or reject it as a false one? I say the latter, for a survey of historical men of enterprise and ingenuity will reveal that they, as often as the common run of man, find themselves capable of forging familial households in which each supports each. I cannot accept, as conducive to a healthy balance of considerations in the mind of the reader, such a perniciously stacked choice, in which our hapless protagonist must choose between the furtherance of enterprise -- at the cost of household, society, and in short all values whether human or lapine -- and the company of a woman of the political world, her soul flecked all through with motives ulterior. Must anyone face such a Sophie's Choice, or may we instead flee venal politics and relinquishment of ambition and seek out a harmonious coexistence with wife and homeland while working all the more on our Corpuscle Devices or whatever else may stir the spirit of boundless pursuit within us? I venture to aver the latter. And though you may reply that the Lorrums have no such happy eventualities on the horizon, I caution that the Lorrums are unreal while men are real, that any depictions of such phantasms must ultimately serve the end of superior realizations here in the real, where all stories are forged and which all stories must serve. _________________ A Humble Ombudsman's Musings |
| jenni_fur | Posted: Feb 8, 2004 10:41 AM |
| Moderator Joined: May 17, 2000 Location: the warrens Posts: 2653 |
ombudsman, we have been over this. i have tried to respond to your posts in earlier threads and i have not found that we can agree about much. you are free to post here, but i will not respond. have a nice day. :P _________________ Life Among The Lorrums, a mildly AU story about our favorite not-rabbits (200k and counting!) ff.net profile "I've never had any ambitions except to be kind -- but it seems life has contrived others for me." ~Tom (Nautical Dusk) "Life without mechanical assistance? Just the idea chills me to the marrow!" ~Cleft-Ear (The Mainspring) |
| metamarsh | Posted: Feb 8, 2004 12:13 PM |
| Cherub Joined: Jun 2, 2000 Location: marshland Posts: 965 |
jenni_fur wrote:
marsh, please don't be a dick. :P i know you're frustrated with err right now but PLEASE keep that in seeking continuity and don't bring it here. (also, if what you're getting out of this is that cleft-ear is being "pussywhipped," you are missing the point. the lorrums have a matriarchal society. going against that is difficult and risks disrupting the social order, which they consider very important. this is lorrums 101 stuff)
Sorry Jenny, and sorry Err. I was kinda not sober when I wrote that post but I know that doesn't excuse anything. I have my own opinions about Cleft-Ear and Spear-Tail but I should probably think about them some more and try to find a way to say them that isn't stupid.And yeah I admit I've been really getting on Err's case about the Reversal Hypothesis stuff. It just seems so wrong to me but I'll keep that to seeking continuity. Man, I wake up with a hangover and the first thing I see is that I've been a dick to my friends. Talk about a bad way to start the morning. Again, sorry guys. _________________ think for yourself, schmuck |